tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1725975489373372070.post5724378415315418557..comments2024-03-02T17:35:58.818-08:00Comments on Spike is Best: In the Fourth AgePaul Stilwellhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04446241126728692642noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1725975489373372070.post-36248796498541611332011-11-07T11:12:41.338-08:002011-11-07T11:12:41.338-08:00I think, since Paul mentioned that I mentioned it,...<i>I</i> think, since Paul mentioned that I mentioned it, that Tolkien satisfied his need to explore the workings of evil within a particular man of the heroic type in <i>Túrin</i>; you'll note that even in the First Age, he only but sketches the downfall of Numenor, and only starts developing actual characters with Elendil and his sons. It seems that Man's tendency to evil would be too burdensome on its own if not for the oft-repeated prophesy of redemption; but the tale of Aragorn's coming into his Kingdom is the most fully developed imprint of that type, and for echos of the fall after salvation we already have the history of the Church.Belfry Bathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00514867101036143597noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1725975489373372070.post-75273487743644126722011-11-06T21:12:03.134-08:002011-11-06T21:12:03.134-08:00But yet the character development, story line, gri...But yet the character development, story line, gripping emotion, catharsis, you name it is that much greater in those stories concerning men.<br /><br />We spend hundreds of pages with Frodo, but do we know him? Do we really even care when he appears dead at the end of the tunnel? Except insofar as we care about his mission.<br /><br />We despise Uriah Heep far more than any creature found in Tolkein's fantasy because we see him so much closer to us.<br /><br />The stories of men in Tolkien's fantasy are boring compared to the rest of the folk because they aren't developed in a manner that makes us care about them in the same was as we care about Scarlet, or Don Quixote or Jean Valjean.<br /><br /> or Agnes in David Copperfield who is not so much developed herself, but we want to keep her safe from the vile Heep.<br /><br />I can understand his not wanting to write a story about men set in a fantasy setting where elf maidens are far more interesting to the imagination, but not because men as subject matter is banal and depressing.love the girlshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11086068884134493993noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1725975489373372070.post-19450758094944264742011-11-06T01:26:00.026-08:002011-11-06T01:26:00.026-08:00Indeed, Dostoevsky also comes to mind, though I...Indeed, Dostoevsky also comes to mind, though I've only read a chunk of the beginning of Crime and Punishment, having yet to read him.<br /><br />Yes, and on and on. Because it's in The Lord of the Rings and other Tolkien works. Gollum, Denethor, Boromir, Saruman (though Saruman is not of the race of Men)...and then there's Turin, of whom is some recent mention, here:<br /><br />http://epistle-null.blogspot.com/2011/11/who-calls-you-hobbits-though.html<br /><br />I don't think Tolkien was so much shying away from fallen human nature in abandoning the story (after around thirteen pages). It's more of a disenchantment occurring after all that happened through the first, second and third ages. Sort of like what Frodo, Samwise, Merry and Pippin encounter when returning to the Shire in The Scouring of the Shire, except more like ten times that: Tolkien would have found the banality and ongoing redundancy of evil being perpetuated - the "long defeat of history" - after the victory already won, in small mean ways...he would have found the absurdity unbearable after the ages he breathed.Paul Stilwellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04446241126728692642noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1725975489373372070.post-32767381975743966262011-11-05T13:12:51.309-07:002011-11-05T13:12:51.309-07:00But yet somehow we have managed to have produced a...But yet somehow we have managed to have produced a number of very good stories well worth the writing that likewise did not shy away from our fallen nature.<br /><br />Kristen Laveransdatter<br />Le Miserable<br />The Count of Monte Cristo<br />Gone with the Wind<br />and on and on.<br /><br />What they all have in common is fallen nature, where it leads, and how it can be overcome.love the girlshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11086068884134493993noreply@blogger.com